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Does every trade hit the time and sale?

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 Muhammad A., Independent Day Trader at Equity Day-Trader

 Friday, December 12, 2014

Do trades that happen inside a banks dark pool hit the tape (the times and sales)? Do they hit it instantly (same second) or does the bank have discretion in choosing when to report such trades? Many of us analyze the trades, trade volumes or the order book and you would want to know if the data you're analyzing is complete. There is a discussion in the artificial intelligence trading group which had a link to the 60 Minutes show in which they claim some hedge fund "scammers" can front run ordinary investors trades so fast that their transactions don't even print.


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6 comments on article "Does every trade hit the time and sale?"

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 Alex Krishtop, trader, researcher, consultant in forex and futures

 Sunday, December 14, 2014



No.


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 Muhammad A., Independent Day Trader at Equity Day-Trader

 Sunday, December 14, 2014



Interesting Alex, but this would allow for "chart engineering". I thought the regulations required every trade to be reported.

I guess the good news is that there are many players in the market and as a trader you hope what you see is enough to tell you enough of the story.


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 Alex Krishtop, trader, researcher, consultant in forex and futures

 Sunday, December 14, 2014



Reported does not mean to be published in a particular data feed. However you are right, at certain level the rule of "big numbers" (don't confuse with "big data") makes it possible to read enough of the story.


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 Muhammad A., Independent Day Trader at Equity Day-Trader

 Sunday, December 14, 2014



Great points! How about timeliness. If I were to look into how soon trades are being reported can you point me to a resource or can you share some of your knowledge regarding that subject. I think there is a grey area which allows a particular party of interest to "drag their feet" in reporting a trade.

By delaying the reporting of some trades it can make it look like some price moves happened in the reverse order, which actually would make the chart look different. One can engineer an engulfing bar in a certain location when there wasn't one or a head and shoulders pattern when in fact there wasn't one just by choosing to delay some prints. Some of this stuff can be easily fixed by removing outliers from the data, but if someone really wants to give a distorted story they would be careful by making their data believable, meaning far enough but not too far.

I had looked into these points few years ago but never got anywhere. Recently I read the Flash Boys book which rekindled my interest in the subject. I had issue thoough with one of the main points in that book. The point that made the "hero" make the big discovery i.e. the claim that when traders pushed the button to make the trade all the liquidity disappeared.

In the book they claimed no one knew what happened to the liquidity. In reality if 1000 shares were offered on different exchanges and you go to grab them, the visible shares on the offer would have to be either bought by someone else or canceled, and in both cases this would show on the time and sales. I don't understand how the book could claim that the liquidity just disappeared without a trace.


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 Alex Krishtop, trader, researcher, consultant in forex and futures

 Sunday, December 14, 2014



You seem to have missed a great hassle that has been around for almost 2 years now with various regulators insisting on improving the quality of reporting, centralizing it and so on. the theme is so vast that I'm even slightly puzzled on where to start. Try starting with some search on consolidated audit trail (CAT) for example, hope it will lead you to more resources. It may also be a good idea to subscribe for headlines in a resource dedicated to technology, regulations and similar things. among which Tabb Forum is perhaps the most prominent one. This will enlighten you with even more food for thought.


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 Muhammad A., Independent Day Trader at Equity Day-Trader

 Sunday, December 14, 2014



Thanks!

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